Remember when that used to be a big swing.
To be fair, a protector is 2 points on its own and an impera brigade is 5 points on its own. It's all about what you're setting up along with it.
QG is a base of 12 points. Bran'ing 3 makes it 15. Bran'ing 2+Cerys and pulling Cerys with it makes it 21 points. Playing Draig once makes it 27 points that you can play 3 times, not counting other buffs (Operator, graveyard buffs, etc).
I don't think the problem with QG is the number of points. It's that it gets obliterated by medics, compression, caretaker, assire, etc.
Edit: Also tempo. You can enable pretty big 1-play swings, but you're dedicating so much time and deck space to it. You need to use your leader, a gold, and at least one silver. And if they graveyard hate one of your QG, you lose out on 1-3 rez ticks for Cerys. Basically the archetype has a slow build up and is too easy to interfere with.
You kinda described gwent problem in this patch with your description, while you doing all this to make a very powerfull card the enemy is droping 15 points every turn (dorfs) with no down side as playing low power cards.
Even if there was no graveward hate do you think QG could still keep up?
Exactly, all their setup plays are worth 2-6 points. If you just push hard in your first 2 plays you can just pass and either take the round right there or go into round 2 with 2 cards up. QG is quite bad if it doesn't have card advantage in r3.
Actualy, graveyard hate got better this patch, since people cant randomly griffon your stuff away. that said, there is still too much of it imo and queensguard just doesnt have the points to be viable even without it.
So which bronze dwarf is 15 points by itself?
Or 16 at the bestest.
How? The strongest Bronze dwarf is 9 + 3, while Agitaor is 2.
You can get the firework guy, that’s 2+5+9=16
Which is Dennis own power and doesnt count for the bronze alone. Or do you count Agitator as 8 because Mandrake?
then qg isnt 15 at best its 12 at best, the 15 comes from brans power
And Bearmaster is 12 points by itself! Welcome to Bearland
Except thats not true at all, queensguard is not base 12 points bc you have to put them in the graveyard first and a discard is also worth points, for example lets say you warmonger your QG into the graveyard you are effectively playing 7 point bronzes to later get base 12 points. Thats terrible. These could be 11 points with raiders.
A voice of reason...
Remember when Bran and Cerys weren't a thing and Queensguard was a big swing?
That's faulty logic
Queensguard requires set up. It requires you use your discard options to discard them. So things like bran or warmongers become only 2 and 7 point plays respectively, to get a 12 point bronze. Then you also need to expend a Rez to use them. So that's two cards being used to get minor value.
Brigades can easily become 14 points of value, with removal, using a 10 point infiltrator.
If an agitator is 2 on it's own, then a queensguard is 4 on it's own. I don't see how you can actually make this argument. Agitators are usually around 14 points of value with no setup required, besides having a defender in deck.
That's kind of the point I was going for. QG is 3x4 by itself, which OP was calling low. And I'm trying to say that you can't look at the cards in a vacuum like that -- it's like calling a Brigade 5 points when it's really a lot more.
With more context, it's clear that QG gives you huge 1-play swings (much more than 3x4 points), but at the expense of low tempo / easy disruption / opportunity cost. Brigades can be worth 10, 15, 20+ points with less setup, more tempo, and harder disruption.
With more context it's clear 12 points is not a huge swing. That's the point.
The whole point is that with more context a 12 point swing is not huge at all. It requires you to make a few discards that are extremely low tempo. Then you finally use a Rez and get a 12. Good bronzes reach about 14 points of value. There are so many that do that now with very little set up
Sure you could say that queensguard can be strengthened but that's ignoring the fact that all those plays are very low tempo
That's true. I think Qg could use a slight buff so their tempo would increase. You have to perform an action on them to work (discarding) and pulling them out of the graveyard. So 12 strenght seems to not be that much compared to the average power of bronzes after last patch.
I've been playing Queensguard a lot lately and the problem isn't necessarily the Queensguards themselves but the deck's turn 1, which is abysmal. You open with Bran to discard 2 + Cerys, then ideally you want to use Operator/Draig as well sometime during turn 1, but you can't, especially if you have blue coin, cause them combined is 13 points, which could very well be 1 card worth of points from your opponent. Of course Operator AND Draig is a bit greedy but even just one of them plus Bran still is horrible tempo. Operator nerf also doesn't help the problem.
It's a bit saddening that tempo has become so important. I wish we had more decks that require set up.
QG deck have always thrown R1 to win R2 and R3. It definitely is the QG that are the problem right now, as you're throwing away R1 to play a 12 point bronze play with a possible Cerys upside (that could have been done with any other set of cards).
The problem is when your opponent has so much tempo with 1 card, more than you have with 3, and you have to play those cards in round 1 to have meaningful QG value (you can get to 20+ value with them without Cerys quite easily actually). So it's always hard when your opponent early passes (especially if you lost coinflip) and you have to go 2 cards down or just pass as well and then they drypass R2 and you get to R3 and you don't have the proper value. Sure you can play maybe a deck with not that much setup (just leaving QG at 12) and focusing on tempo, but that's not a true QG deck in my eyes. I love to see Freya into 30+ points in round 3, it's just so satisfying.
A QG does set up its QG. If the opponent passes early R1 all that does is shift setup to R2. Your Bran discard is usually QG, Olgierd and Cerys, so they don't just have it easy R2 if they deliberately surrender R1.
Of course this is all moot when QG value is so low anyway.
You are right, bran is just a 2 point tempo play.
Qg wasn’t even good last year, people were running cerys up and down but her guards are nowhere to be found
That's not really true. I think it was quite popular and good in closed beta.
People downvoting just have short memories... it was pretty damn viable for a while, before mork/olgierd became more popular.
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